I heard more cultish comments at this "study" than I have in a long time. It was insane. The conductor went over so everyone could have a chance to verbalize their lover for the "slave". Good comments above - paragraph 15 was of course the highlight. The best was when the conductor made the statement that last weeks study didn't change any truth, but refined it. Refined? Taking a 180 degree change on an explanation is not refinement it's change.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
-
26
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-05-08 WT Study (LOYAL LEAVE)
by blondie inquote.
quote.
quote.
-
-
-
35
JWs come for a visit! I can't believe it.
by dawg ini just wanted to relate that this weekend, a group of jws came by and visited me-they had come to athens to watch the big game that my team didn't show up for.
most of them knew that i had written letters to many family members and friends saying the jws were full of crocodile crap and yet all of them hung out with me.
one was inquisitive in a good way, asking me if i was an 'apostate"... i told him that i was because i've formerly stated that i disagree with the jws about many of their doctrines.
-
-
Doubting Bro
dawg - That's pretty awesome. It is a little surprising that they would seek you out given your pretty clear stand. I sometimes think its one thing to make a "mistake" according to WTS rules and be df'ed but to clearly say you don't believe what they teach is something far worse in a believing JWs mind. I agree with you that there are quite a few JWs who are JWs in name only and likely don't really believe. That's why they will never drop the shunning because if they did that, there would be no ramifications to leaving. PS - the Bulldogs just puzzle me because I just can't see the Tide as being THAT much better. Oh well, another crazy year in college football!
-
30
Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-28-08 WT Study (SUCCESS)
by blondie in*** km 3/06 p. 1 par.
(mark 4:26-29) let us now consider three more of jesus' illustrations-the mustard grain, the leaven, and the dragnet.
when the wts says "god's people" do they mean anyone other than jws?.
-
-
Doubting Bro
Billy - You are hilarious!! If you're not a comedy writer, you've missed your calling!
Bluesbrother - I think you've hit all the changes. What amazes me is the 180 degree change in some of these.
The mustard plant changing from all organizations that took on the mantel of Christian and were apostate to just JWs who are the true religion is pretty big. It seems there are two basic schools of thought on this illustration. Of course, since the WTS loves to change things, they have simply moved from one school to another. The old position was in the school that the mustard plant represented the growth of problems within the Christian church as represented by birds (agents of Satan per the illustration in Matt 13 where they eat the seed sown by the roadside) getting shelter there. The new position is in agreement for the most part with the commentators that say the mustard plant signifies the growth of Christianity from 1 person to a major world religion. The only difference is the WTS twist that the plant represents just the WTS. Of course, everything is always about them, so no shock there. What I read said that this plant signifies the outside growth of the Christian religion (numbers of converts).
The leaven is also not a unique WTS teaching and I found there are basically two schools of thought on that illustration from bible commentators.By the way, this apparently was a very long held view and may be one of the only things the WTS hasn't changed its position on, until now. The old WTS teaching that leaven was bad is not unique from what I saw in my brief search and is thought by some to represent evil in the church. The new WTS teaching is in line with some bible commentators only, of course, a WTS twist. Seems, an equal number of folks I read think the leaven represents the teachings of Jesus taking root in an individual Christian's life and "making that person over". Like a small amount of fermented dough can ferment the whole lump. Seems to make sense to me. Yet, the WTS twist is that while it represents "spiritual growth" this is evidenced by outside growth. That is different from the standard interpertation that this illustration represents spiritual growth of an individual. By the way, our conductor allowed a major deviation in the discussion where many took the standard interpertation and ran with it. He even agreed and by his wording actually disagreed with the WTS interpertation (not sure if he realizes he did that or not).
Finally, we come to the dragnet. Again, another 180 degree change. This one is unique to the WTS. It really doesn't make any sense at all. First, anyone that has used a drag net knows that you capture EVERYTHING in the area of the net. Fish aren't attracted to the stupid thing. Its not the same a bait technique where you entice the fish to strike at a lure. Also, its a one time thing. Either your a good fish or a bad fish. You are either kept or destroyed. They make it sound like you can change from a good fish to a bad fish or vice versa. I still have trouble understanding how the WTS explains this. Seems most of those commenting nor the conductor explained it very well and basically rushed through that part.
I actually read the whole book of Matthew this weekend to look specifically at the illustrations. In my uneducated opinion, it seems that Jesus basically was sending the same message to his apostles by telling them many different illustrations. There would be a contrast between his followers and those who didn't follow him. The faithful/evil slave, the worker in the field (one chosen one not), the sheep and goats, the wheat and weeds, the good fish and bad fish. Seems to me they are all talking about the same thing. To try to make these items all mean different things simply doesn't make sense. Yet, when you're trying to retrofit a failed theology - you have to make leaps of logic.
-
20
Washington Mutual just failed. Meh.
by LDH ini better not see people who can't make payments on time getting to keep their homes.
i have a friend who is 67. she has an arm.
her payment dropped by $20 in august.
-
-
Doubting Bro
Which is why the government should allow these businesses to fail. Chase probably ended up with a decent deal. The BOD of WaMu certainly will be sued for negligence and whoever wrote their Directors & Officers insurance coverage (AIG was/is a large writer of that type of insurance) will likely pay policy limits which will not even to begin to make up the loss for the investors. Treason? Not sure I follow that.I think the treason is actually being committed by the elected officials in Washington on both sides of the aisle especially if the bailout package in its current form is passed.
-
11
Is this normal?!
by Lo ini'm one of those ones who drifted away before getting to heavily in...thank god...but upon arrival in my new house i found a letter, a hand written letter in my letterbox from a local witness saying they had called around a few times and no one had been in, had a special message etc etc and gave an address which is a kingdom hall should the residents wish to contact her.
is it usual to write such a long hand written letter??
i think it's a bit strange.
-
-
Doubting Bro
Just some pioneer or perhaps elderly publisher trying to get their time in. If you hand write it instead of typing it, you can draw the letter out to an hour. Recycle it!
-
54
Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips ini am almost shaking as i write this for what is happening to the capital markets, this country, and the free world.
the impact of the past two weeks' action in the financial markets, if not reversed by cooler heads, will have irreparably changed the world in a way that only terrorist attacks and acts of war have in the past.. .
nationalizing fannie mae and freddie mac, providing an emergency quasi-legal bridge loan to aig, temporarily banning short-selling on all stocks in the us, and instituting an rtc-type entity to handle the toxic waste of the financial system is economic violence on a grand scale.. .
-
-
Doubting Bro
"Libertarians are real loons... what we need is party that's pragmatic." Not sure which of their policies are particularly loony but I do agree that it would be impossible to implement their platform as stated in the near term. Things like abolishing Social Security (which I'm in my late-30s and realize that I'll NEVER collect)and legalizing drugs (I understand their argument but think the social consequences will be worse than they think) are probably not very pragmatic. Also, allowing free market education could perhaps be a long term goal but unlikely to get by the powerful teachers unions and retirement pension funds. Plus, I do think the government needs to ensure that there is a good fundamental educational base since that is necessary for a well adjusted society. But, I think they have some really good ideas about ending welfare (both domestically and especially welfare provided to foreign countries as well as industries who get subsidies) and certainly good ideas about protecting individual freedoms. Actually, if you could pick and choose policies from the big 2 and some of the smaller parties, that would be the best. But, no way that happens. Oh, how about term limits? 1 term, no re-election so only people who actually want to fix things serve instead of the life long blood suckers who reside in DC. I certainly wouldn't hire any of those bozos to work for me. They wouldn't know any honest days work if it bit them in the rear end.
-
54
Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips ini am almost shaking as i write this for what is happening to the capital markets, this country, and the free world.
the impact of the past two weeks' action in the financial markets, if not reversed by cooler heads, will have irreparably changed the world in a way that only terrorist attacks and acts of war have in the past.. .
nationalizing fannie mae and freddie mac, providing an emergency quasi-legal bridge loan to aig, temporarily banning short-selling on all stocks in the us, and instituting an rtc-type entity to handle the toxic waste of the financial system is economic violence on a grand scale.. .
-
-
Doubting Bro
Dawg - I do agree that too much power concentrated in the hands of any party is bad. In my opinion, the problem isn't necessarily with the Republicans or Democrats. Its with the fact that those are the only two viable choices we have. Really, what we need to have a few more political parties to emerge with enough power to force the other parties actually work instead of sucking the country dry. The Dems have controlled Congress for the last 2 years yet haven't accomplished much. My personal view is that they want the economy to be bad so that they have a better chance of winning in November. Cynical I know, but it seems to me that a politicians number 1 job is to get elected and then once elected, the job is to get re-elected. We need greater accountability in the political process and our current 2 party system just doesn't cut it. I do agree with some of the traditional Republican views of less government interference in the average persons affairs, smaller government, lower taxes. I just don't think the Republican party agrees with those views. However, the Democratic proposals seem to me to expand government even further so I don't agree with them either. I really don't agree with the Republican president circumventing the constitution, yet Congress let him do it so they are equally to blame. Obama doesn't have the necessary experience in my opinion and I think his economic policies will only push us further into debt. And with the same party controlling Congress, there will be an open checkbook. On the other hand, McCain may have been a maverick at one point, but he's a bought man now. And, he's old which means the VP position has a good chance of taking over. Palin has even less experience than Obama. And while I really try hard not to put a religious test on politicians, her extreme fundamentalist views concern me quite a bit. Actually, she scare the hell out of me. I thought about Barr (Libertarian candidate) but the media has made it almost impossible for them to even enter the discussion. I agree with many of their ideas, but think they're a little naive in thinking they can gut the federal government quickly. Sorry for my ramble, I'm just annoyed at the corruption and incompetence I see. We need change, but its got to be more drastic and just moving from Red to Blue.
-
54
Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips ini am almost shaking as i write this for what is happening to the capital markets, this country, and the free world.
the impact of the past two weeks' action in the financial markets, if not reversed by cooler heads, will have irreparably changed the world in a way that only terrorist attacks and acts of war have in the past.. .
nationalizing fannie mae and freddie mac, providing an emergency quasi-legal bridge loan to aig, temporarily banning short-selling on all stocks in the us, and instituting an rtc-type entity to handle the toxic waste of the financial system is economic violence on a grand scale.. .
-
-
Doubting Bro
I normally don't comment on these political threads yet feel compelled to. As a disclaimer, I am an independent who thinks that both the Democrats and Republican parties are completely out of touch and out of control. Actually, at this point, I think that what the White House and Congress has done to this country in the last 25 years is nothing short of treason and should be punished accordingly - both sides of the aisle. Having said that, I think BTS list of whose to blame is pretty accurate. I think everyone saw this crisis coming but just hoped it wouldn't happen on their watch. Dawg mentioned the greed at the top and while I agree that is a problem, remember that without some element of greed there is no innovation or economic growth. Its only when greed pushes into the illegal that its a real problem. A lot of the problems we're seeing today isn't necessarily consequences of illegal activity but rather bad business decisions. The government is attempting to shield business owners (AIG, Bear Sterns)from the natural consequences of bad business decisions which is failure. I do agree that the government should in-force the law and that the likely consequence of this crisis (just like the Great Depression) is a bunch of new laws. Some of them will be good and some will not. What I'm most concerned about is that the US government is stretched so thin right now with the things BTS mentions (1 trillion in bail out money, war in Iraq/Afghanistan/"terror", social security, medicare/medicaid) I don't see how its going to stop a depression. Unfortunately for all of us, time has come to pay the piper. It will be ugly and hopefully we will come out of this mess better than before.
-
28
Will the collapse of the US financial system lead to an increase in JW's?
by jwfacts inhttp://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=632789 discusses that "the collapse of these pillars of the us financial system inevitably will result in the decline of the us as a financial power.
" i have received emails from jws saying this proves the end is near.
(surprise surprise, i hasten to remind them that hurricanes, floods and us economic issues are not part of the sign of the end.
-
-
Doubting Bro
The 9-11 bump in my area was at least 15-20% but it only lasted about 3 weeks. When another attack didn't happen right away, or people remembered why the stopped coming to begin with, the numbers went right back to normal. Its kind of like a gym in January. Its completely crowed with folks trying to live up to their New Years Resolutions. By mid-Feb, its right back to the same old folks. The only difference I could see is that if we hit a major depression like the 30s, they could spin it into a 2014 date. I don't know how, but they've done it before and I'm sure they'll do it again. I really think its a matter of time before we go through another depression anyway. Its been over 70 years which means we're probably due. These things run in cycles.
-
113
BOE letter: "presiding overseer" becomes "coordinator of the body of elders
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite inhere's the text of the letter:.
christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.
to all bodies of elders.
-
-
Doubting Bro
james_woods, You make a great point. Someone else mentioned about how the new Family Study night is similar to the LDS Family Home Evening program. Actually, they would be a good model for the WTS to follow. They are a very high control religion just like JWs are. I've actually spoken with Mormon missionaries at my door and they agree that while the doctrines are different, they sort of view JWs as kindred spirits. If that's the ultimate goal, they would need to sink quite a bit into the infrastructure of the congregations. LDS has stuff for little kids, youths and adult programs that the WTS just doesn't seem to care about. I just spent a little time on their website and its much better than the WT website in setting forth their views. I don't agree with them, but I was impressed. They give the impression of being a mainstream religion yet I know they are even more controlling (no coffee comes to mind) than the JWs, they practice shunning as well.